Summary - New Testament From a Jewish Point of View Class 11/29/2021

Wow!  What a class we had today!  Such an amazing and interesting discussion it was!

Karen, Jamus, Jo Ann, Dan, Robin, Merrill, David, Cindy, and Diana attended.  We missed Dave.

We read chapters 9 and 10 in Romans.  As we read, we paused to discuss certain paragraphs or verses.

Verse 7 in Romans 9 states that true Jews are descents of Isaac, not Abraham.  From there we talked about how in Orthodox Judaism a Jew is considered really a Jew based on having a Jewish mother, but in Reform Judaism that does not matter.  There was some discussion of how at Temple Israel and in Reform Judaism it doesn’t matter if someone is a convert.  Everyone is accepted.  Jamus, who is not Jewish, talked about the things he has been allowed to do and not do when he has gone to synagogues with his wife Karen who is Jewish.

Jo Ann mentioned a book she reviewed, Girl Meets God, where the author went through an Orthodox conversion although her father was Jewish, but not her mother, in order to be accepted by the Orthodox community.  Even after her orthodox Jewish conversion, she never had the same status in the Orthodox community as those born to Jewish mothers.  She eventually left Orthodox Judaism and sought God in Christianity.

Diana pointed out that Romans Chapter 9 is where the strict Protestant sects idea of predestination might come from.  

Karen read out loud from a different version of the New Testament than the rest of us.  David noticed that Karen’s version said about the same things just in a different way.  Jo Ann shared how when the deaf use sign language, they usually don’t sign in exact English phrases which is similar to how different versions of the New Testament can say the same things  

Dan said that Paul supposedly met Jesus in person on the Road to Damascus.  That explains why Paul believed so much.   Today, we don’t have that advantage.  We do know that many of today’s evangelicals may have conversion experiences not quite similar to Paul’s that are told in the form of testimonies though that seem to be life changing.

Robin read the grey box that is in reference to Romans Chapter 10 verse 4 titled CHRIST IS THE GOAL OF THE TORAH.  Paul said that the Torah is obsolete because Christ replaced the need to follow the law.  We, as Jews, of course, disagree with this.

The verse from Romans Chapter 10:9 “…because if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” was discussed.  Jo Ann mentioned that does this mean that if Hitler did this just before he killed himself, he is “saved” but the Jews that he sent to their deaths were not?  And…what about babies and toddlers?  How does a baby or toddler do what this verse in Romans says to do?

David explained the Midrash story that in the womb a baby knows the whole Torah, but once born forgets it all and spends his or her entire life trying to retrieve Torah.  The crease on your upper lip is the mark the angel left on your upper lip at the moment she made you forget all of Torah the moment after you were born.  Did you ever have the feeling right after you realized something important about Torah, that you knew it all along?

Merill shared with us he is in the midst of studying and understanding Judaism.  He believes in God.  His thoughts were about how seeking God can be done in different ways.  Jo Ann agreed.

David gave his thoughts on how Judaism and Christianity don’t mix.  David explained Temple Israel’s policy on Christians attending Temple Israel events and programs: they are always welcome as long as they don’t use their presence to proselytize and they can’t become members unless their spouse is Jewish. He talked about the dilemma messianic Jews face in being accepted by the Jewish community.  Also the religious persecution Jews have endured throughout history from Christians is always a reminder that perhaps Judaism and Christianity don’t mix.  

David also spoke about the Torah not mentioning Jesus. The Torah mainly refers to the law and not really about Messiah. As he noted, the Jewish scholars processed Messiah later.

We talked too how there are some Jews that do celebrate Christmas without Jesus, but with a tree, presents, and Santa Claus.  Is that something should Jews do or not do?  That controversy will probably continue to be debated.

Karen believes that Paul spoke honestly from his heart.  He had a lot to do with starting the first churches after Jesus’s death.  Like Jesus, he was also Jewish.  From the previous chapters, he was clear about equal treatment and fairness among people and did not think of himself above any one else.

Cindy listened during our time of study, but was unable to give us input today.  We were so happy she was there though.

We are so glad that Merrill joined us and I hope he joins us again.  

Please add anything I forgot to this summary.

Happy Chanukah everyone!

Zoom Link - Temple Israel Long Beach’s New Testament From a Jewish Point of View - Mondays 9:45–10:45 am Pacific Standard Time

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These discussions and weekly studies have been great!  Today Jo Ann, Dan, Karen, Diana, Dave, and Robin attended.  We missed Cindy and David.  Those who drop in once in a while, were also missed.  Hopefully Debbie will have a free evening in Israel to join in again.  I hope Athena too can visit.  

Romans Chapter 8 was the subject of today.

We started with reading the first two verses:

“ Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a]free from the law of sin and death.”

We came to the conclusion that we really didn’t understand what this meant, so Dave suggested we read the notes that went with this chapter in The Jewish Annotated New Testament.  After Dave read those notes, we concluded that Paul was saying a new and wonderful future is in store only for Christians.

Dan mentioned that a very well known Jewish evangelist named Moishe Rosen (the founder of Jews for Jesus) once said that Jewish people are not interested in a relationship with God but are concerned with living Jewishly.

Robin commented that there is nothing wrong with “living Jewishly” since those in our temple are living out their Judaism by social action outreach  and working to provide food for those less fortunate than us.

We talked about how the Ultra Orthodox certainly “live Jewishly” but does that not mean they have a relationship with God?  Of course they do.

As we read more of the chapter we talked about Paul saying “living according to the flesh” and how there are born again Christians that definitely drastically change their lives once they decide to embrace Jesus.  In comparison, Jews don’t have a dramatic change like that, but it is true that those who follow the Torah do wish to live holy and godly lives.

This got us on to the Torah.  We realized that everything that Paul suggests to these gentile believers in Rome is already in the Torah.  Robin gave the example of the Ten Commandments.  Karen mentioned how holy a life her orthodox Jewish grandfather lived.  

The very end of the chapter stood out: “I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

We decided that Paul was convinced that belief in Jesus is the only way.  Dan mentioned that after one believes he is then required to do many things though like go to church, pray, give money, get baptized, and study the Bible.  Paul truly the founder of Christianity because Jesus didn’t tell his followers they had to do those things.  

Also verse 28 is a famous one:

“We know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose.”

Dan said it reminded him of a statement by the philosopher Voltaire who was making fun of a person who said “this is the best of all possible worlds,” so Dan said “is this the best possible world for those who love God?  Really?”  He mentioned that is an SUV driving into a holiday parade in Wisconsin and killing five people…was that a way God was working things for good?  Huh?

Then we got to verse 35: “Who will separate us from the love of Christ?  Will hardship, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?”

Dan said this sounded like the persecution Jews experienced in the Holocaust.  Did they go naked to gas chambers to be killed for not following Christ?

After we were done discussing and studying we again talked about how difficult this book of Romans is to understand.  Diana said we really need a “Romans For Dummies” book!  Jo Ann mentioned she read the entire Bible in a comic book once and wished that Romans could be found in comic book form.

Jo Ann will try to buy the Kindle Version of the Jewish Annotated New Testament to put on the screen so we can follow what we are reading better together.  

Again, please add anything to my summary.  

Happy Thanksgiving!

Zoom Link - Temple Israel Long Beach’s New Testament From a Jewish Point of View - Mondays 9:45–10:45 am Pacific Standard Time

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Again, we had a lively and interesting discussion!  Jo Ann, Karen, Dave, Dan, and Diana attended.  David, Cindy, and Robin could not attend today and we missed them.  Marlene and Shari expressed interest, but did not come today. Hope they can visit us soon.  It was Diana’s first time joining us and it was a delight to have her with us!  

We read all of Romans Chapter 7 and also read the grey box associated with that chapter that is in the Jewish Annotated New Testament and also most of the notes associated with that chapter in the Jewish Annotated New Testament.

The beginning of the chapter talks about adultery and widowhood, so we talked about how even today, that being a widow or widower does give a person the freedom to date and remarry.  We also talked about how in the Orthodox Jewish circles that divorce is okay, but in Christian circles it is frowned upon.  Jo Ann mentioned a friend who is divorced who was not allowed to participate in the music ministry of a messianic congregation once he remarried.  Karen told the story of her parents’ divorce and how it had to be an Orthodox Jewish divorce.  Adultery still exists and is still considered a bad thing.

Paul was using the death of a spouse and the freedom to remarry as a comparison on how those who embrace Christ are free from The Law (following all the rules in the Torah).  

We discussed the term “sin” and decided that Jews don’t use that term or idea except around Yom Kippur.  At churches it is common to hear the phrase “I am a sinner” or “I have sinned” or “We are/were sinners.”

Dan talked about Paul’s idea of being free from sin and death through Jesus.  In Jewish circles we don’t think in those terms.  

We discussed the phrase “You shall not covet.”  (Paul was using that phrase in reference to that he once followed The Law.). I talked about it is hard not to want what others have.  Karen mentioned a very jealous and mean person who she knows who has a lot.  

Dave read the grey box associated with Romans 7 which explains how Paul goes back and forth between “I” and “We” in this chapter.  

We noticed that the word “sin” was used a lot in this chapter!  Again we came to the conclusion that the Christian religion is about gaining eternal life.

We ended our study with me giving us a preview of what we’ll read next week, Romans 8, by me reading the first two verses:  “There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.”

We also chatted a bit after the study ended at 10:45 am and talked about how Zoom meetings like this have changed our lives, but it is good to see people in person too and are glad that Temple Israel is giving us the option of doing some things in person but continuing to also meet and study on Zoom.

Please add to this summary since I am sure I have not mentioned all the comments that were made in our very lively and fun discussion!

Zoom Link - Temple Israel Long Beach’s New Testament From a Jewish Point of View - Mondays 9:45–10:45 am Pacific Standard Time

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Today was quite fun!  Karen, Dave, Jo Ann, David, Robin, Cindy, and Dan attended.

We first read Romans chapter six and then we read the introduction to the book of Romans that is included in the Jewish Annotated New Testament on pages 285 and 286.

All sorts of subjects were brought up and we discussed those things in a lively Jewish style!  I like it that we don’t have to wait our turn or mute ourselves in order to share our thoughts and I am committed to keeping this style of learning and discussing.  Everyone’s thoughts are so important.  

After we read today’s chapter in Romans, Dave pretty much summarized Romans 6.  Paul said that following Jesus frees from sin and gains eternal life.

We read all three sections included in the introduction to the book in Romans in the Jewish Annotated New Testament.   Much of our discussion today was about who this book was written to: gentiles in Rome who wanted to be part of a religious community.  The Romans of the time may have been intrigued with the Jewish community.  Paul told them they did not need to become Jews (get circumcised) in order to follow Christ, but that they should understand the Jewish community and try to be part of it.  

Cindy mentioned that today’s religions like Unity and the Center for Spiritual Living embrace the idea of community just like we do in the reform Jewish community.  Jo Ann reflected on the sense of community we have at Temple Israel and remembered the sense of community she felt when she and her husband shared a house at the beginning of their marriage.  

David remembered his high school days in Berkeley (before hippies) where he met Fringies (people that hung around the colleges, but didn’t attend classes) who wanted to be part of the college community without going to college.  

We talked about how excited Paul was about this new religion.  He believed that it would be an entirely new religion that would completely take over and Judaism would fade away.  I mentioned that did not happen.

Dan mentioned that when these books were written there were not very many Christians.  Christianity was not a separate religion yet.

Karen discussed that Christians are not holy.   She said they still sin as do all of us.  She shared that the Old Testament is the root of New Testament. 

Robin said that Paul felt that for Judaism to be complete Jews needed to embrace Jesus.  We discussed the idea of Completed Jew (a term sometimes used by Christians) which is a term that can sound offensive.  Karen said that Jews who believe in Jesus prefer using the term “Believer” which is less offensive.  

We discussed the idea of evil persons standing behind religion as a defense for their conduct. We all agreed that Hitler was religious but not holy evidenced by the mass killings that he ordered. 

There was an enlightening discussion of Revelation (written by John) and end of world events as well as a time of trial and trouble. Karen shared that she believes that we know not the day or hour but must remain alert.  Jo Ann shared an amusing story of how she really thought her husband was raptured and disappeared when they were young!  (She was even looking inside drawers and under the bed for a remnant of his clothes!)  

David gave us insight into history of the Christian religion.  There were several movements.  

We agreed to finish Romans.  We also realize that to using the Jewish Annotated New Testament for this study is useful, but those in this group who don’t want to purchase it can still get by with any New Testament.   

Again, please add anything you can remember we discussed to this summary.

Zoom Link - Temple Israel Long Beach’s New Testament From a Jewish Point of View - Mondays 9:45–10:45 am Pacific Standard Time

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Today we re-read chapter 4 in Romans and also read chapter 5.  We took a peek at the end of chapter 6 too. We also read most of the notes associated with chapters 4 and 5 in the Jewish Annotated New Testament.  

Sadly, just as we got started, as we were readying the notes, Renee decided she did not understand any of what chapter 4 and what the notes said and suddenly decided to leave the group.  She said it was just not making any sense at all to her and she had better things to do.

I agree with Renee, these chapters in Romans are hard to understand. The New Testament has sounded like gibberish to me for most of my life, but I want to understand it.  I want to understand too why the words in these chapters seem to mean something to Christians.  Although so much of this can be confusing, I am determined to understand it.  

For the entire hour, Jo Ann, Karen, and Dave were present, but we did get a quick visit from Athena and my husband Dan was able to join us during this lunch hour.  We did miss David.  I am sure David would have helped us understand more about what we read today. 

Just as Dan joined the group, we were trying to figure out what summarized what we read today.  Dan mentioned that Judaism was not just about atoning for sin.  He said that the Judaism and the Torah is about this life and is not all about seeking eternal life.  It is about a good life here on earth.  Paul brought in the ideas associated with Christianity.  

When Dave read Chapter 5, we noticed that references to circumcision were repeated over and over again, but Paul was trying to make it clear that there was no difference between Jew or gentile when it came to having faith and following Jesus.  Circumcision we learned last week refers to becoming a Jew.

Karen pointed out that all this was about faith.  She shared that Paul looked at Jews and gentiles as equals and spoke his messages to all of them, Jew or gentile.  She shared that Jews during Paul’s time were very tied to the law, commandments, and clean living.  The believers of the time had faith and belief in what Paul shared in chapters 4 and 5 of Romans.  It involved faith over observation of the law.

There was a comparison of Adam and Jesus in chapter five.  They are opposites according to Paul.  Adam is guilty of bringing the whole issue of sin into our world.  Jesus is responsible for wiping out sin for those who believe.

We learned that believing in what Jesus did, according to the text, leads to eternal life.  Eternal life Dave noticed, is also mentioned again at the end of chapter 6, so it looks like Romans is a book describing how one can obtain eternal life based on belief.

Please…add to my summary if you can.  This was hard for me to summarize. 

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Added entertainment:  After the study today, I asked my son Joel for his thoughts.  They are embedded in the videos below as we were driving away from an ice rink.  Also…by he way…I had to facilitate today’s study from inside of our car since Joel wanted me to go with him from a trampoline park in Huntington Beach where he was doing back flips to an ice arena where he is learning to do a back flip on ice skates!  I think it is great that Zoom makes it possible for us to learn from anywhere!