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Tuesday, April 26, 2022

Summary of New Testament From Jewish Point of View Class - 4/25/2022



Again, we had a fun discussion!  Jo Ann, Dan, Odette, Karen, David, Dave, Robin, and Merrill attended.  Zoom continues to be great since Dan was in Long Beach, Jo Ann was in Colorado Springs, and Karen was on the road from Colorado to South Carolina.  Of course Odette, David, Dave, and Robin were also in Long Beach.

Below is a summary of written by Dan: 

New Testament from a Jewish point of view April 25, 2022

Prologue – “Give me that old time religion” - (As usual Dan led us in singing “Give Me That Old Time Religion.”

We then read and studied 1st Corinthians chapters 14 and 15

Chapter 14

Tongues, unintelligible and otherwise. David Philips said he could not find evidence of a pre-Christian practice of speaking in tongues. However, he said the practice existed from 200 BCE on among the Greeks and Romans, specifically the oracles, such as the oracle of Delphi.

Those present agreed the practice is strange. Karen said she broke up with a boyfriend after attending his church which practiced speaking in tongues. Jo Ann recalled an incident in a church when she was expected to fall down, but no one told her that. She recalled the pastor’s “oily hand” pressing against her forehead in vain (!).

Chapter 15

Odette first thing expressed her bad feelings about the passage that forbade women to speak in church (latter part of chapter 15). Dan said according to Dr Bart Ehrman there is good evidence from ancient manuscripts that this passage is addition from some ancient scribe who added this later and does not belong in this passage at all.

Early in chapter 15, Paul says what the “gospel” is, and spends the rest of the chapter refuting the idea that the dead are not going to be resurrected. Paul vehemently opposed this idea, saying that if the dead are not raised (resurrected), then Jesus was not raised. That would mean the whole Christian message is meaningless, according to Paul.

The last part of chapter 15 describes the resurrect of the dead when the dead are raised, then are joined by the living, to forever be with the Lord.

Dan recommended listening to “The trumpet shall sound” from Handel’s Messiah, available on You Tube.

Please add anything forgotten to this summary.


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    Tuesday, April 19, 2022

    Summary of New Testament From a Jewish Point of View Class - April 18, 2022


    Today was GREAT!  And we got to read the “Love Chapter!”

    Odette, Merrill, Karen, Jo Ann, Dan, David Philips, Dave Leib, and Robin attended.  Before we began, we shared tales of our Seders.  Then, Dan led us in singing our tradition before we study of “Give Us That Old Time Religion.”

    Below is a summary written by Dan that summarizes what we discussed.

    1 Corinthians 12 

    Chapter 12 primarily delt with “spiritual gifts” – interestingly, the commentary mentioned similar “gifts” mentioned in Jewish sources among Jewish, non-Christian people. 

    David Philips said that references to Jewish speaking in tongues are from sources outside of the Tanach . He said there is a hierarchy of respect about spiritual gifts, that some were more highly prized and others.

    Jo Ann asked is there any reference anywhere to a “body of Judaism”? She mentioned some members of the Sun Valley Jewish community letting her know of their wealth, and such things are absent at Temple Israel.

    Karen spoke of the practice of giving anonymously to avoid advertising one’s generosity.

    Odette said that among the sins mentioned on the day of atonement is taking God’s name in vain.

    Robin talking of Christian misinterpretation of Jewish “cursing Jesus” – that such a practice is unknown in Judaism.

    1 Corinthians 13 Love chapter -Robin spoke of this idea’s similarity to Judaism – loving your neighbor, for an example. Loving is common to both Jewish and Christian ideas of virtue.

    Addition from JO ANN:

    Dan and Jo Ann sang Kenn Gulliksen’s CHARITY.  Below is a YouTube video of that song:


    Please add anything forgotten to this summary.


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    Tuesday, April 12, 2022

    Summary of New Testament From a Jewish Point of View Class - April 11, 2022


    Zoom is great!  Jo Ann was able to open up the Zoom room while on the road in Utah!  Dan co-hosted the meeting from a motel in Arizona!  Karen helped and co-hosted from Colorado!

    Jo Ann, Dan, Karen, Odette, Robin, Merill, and Dave attended.

    Below is a summary (written by Dan) about what we learned and discussed:

     Summary of NT from Jewish point of view 4/11/2022

    I Corinthians 11

    In the beginning of this chapter, Paul the apostle discussed “head coverings” with the Corinthian Christians. We are at a disadvantage in understanding these points from 2,000 year old clothing traditions. (Paul wanted men’s heads not covered…is that why men don’t cover their heads in Christian churches?)

     Robin said that kipot were always worn at the conservative congregations she  grew up with, in response to Paul saying that men should not wear head coverings. We discussed head coverings for both men and women in reform, conservative and orthodox congregations. Jo Ann mentioned that at a time when conservative hair styles for men were expected,  her ice dance partner fell during a skating competition. This revealed her partner’s attempt to fool the judges into thinking he was clean cut.  Off his short hair wig fell onto the ice, igniting wild laughter among the deeply staid ice skating judges.

    The subject of communion came up, and Paul said that people to took communion in a “unworthy” manner could become sick and even die (sleep=death). Discussion of the origin of the “seder” versus “Passover meal” (seders had not been invented in the mid 1stcentury when I Corinthians was written.) Dan mentioned the talks describing Passover used for fundraising by missionaries to the Jews.

    A statement was made in this chapter about long hair being shameful for men to wear is an obvious anachronism. In the “Jesus Movement” times of the 1960s and 1970s a breakthrough occurred when Evangelical churches let hippies attend services without a shave and a hair cut. 

    At the end of the chapter we spoke of the Christian practice of “communion” compared with the Passover Seder of modern Judaism. It was noted that “seders” in the present form did not exist in the mid first century CE. Paul’s warning against taking communion in an “unworthy” manner could result in sickness or even death. 

    Addition from Jo Ann:  As we discussed head coverings, it is interesting that in Jewish houses of worship, men cover their heads, but in Christian houses of worship, they usually are asked to remove their hats.  My late father got in an argument with a rabbi in Colorado whether he should wear a yarmulke at my daughter’s Bat Mitzvah since at Temple Israel it was optional and that is how he grew up.  After that, my father always wore one at services.  

    Also, we talked about long hair since Paul said that men should not have long hair, but the hippies did!  I remember my skating partner wanting to roller skate so much once after we were done with our ice skating practice that when the roller rink said he couldn’t skate until he shaved off his beard and mustache, that when they gave him a razor, he shaved!  We talked about even some jobs today, for example Disneyland, Sun Valley Company, Disney On Ice, want clean shaven personnel with short hair.

    We also talked about how some Jewish woman and Catholic women just wear a doily type lace hat on their heads for worship services.

    Please add anything forgotten to this summary.


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    Wednesday, April 6, 2022

    Summary of New Testament From Jewish Point of View Class - April 4, 2022

    (This week’s class took place while Jo Ann was “on the road again.”  Dan was in Long Beach. Along with Karen’s help, they were able to facilitate our Zoom class while Jo Ann was driving and even though Jo Ann was on the road, she was able to participate.)

    Jo Ann, Dan, Karen, Odette, Robin, David, Merill, and Dave attended.

    We studied the 10th chapter of I Corinthians.

    We had a lot of different feelings about this chapter.

    Robin found the assertion by Paul the apostle that Jesus was involved in the events of the Exodus to be disturbing, which Jo Ann agreed with. 

    Merrill mentioned that his desire in taking part in this study is to learn. 

    Odette said that some "hate speech" passages ascribed to Paul could be later additions made by other writers.

    We talked about living water and the rock that followed the Israelites through the desert.  Dan thought that it is in the Talmud that this rock literally followed them!  David explained that living water (for example water from melting ice and a flowing stream) are sources of the water for a mikvah.  Dan and Jo Ann and Karen sang “I’ve Got a River of Life!”

    The idea introduced in I-Corinthians 10 verses 20-21 that pagan gods and idols were "demons" led to a discussion as to the place of "demons" in Jewish belief. 

    David Philips said demons were not mentioned in the Torah. Jo Ann added that when she worked for About.com, there was a writer who was the expert on "Angels and Demons."

    We talked about Jews in Rome, and David Philips said the Jews had special rights in Rome because of their support of Julius Caesar that lasted for 150 years. 

    Jo Ann asked why there was not lamb today at passover. David Philips said kosher leg of lamb is not available in the U.S. 

    Dan was puzzled why some Christians eat ham at Easter time.

    If anyone else has anything to add to this summary, please share.


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    Saturday, April 2, 2022

    Summary of New Testament From a Jewish Point of View Class - March 29, 2022

    1 Corinthians 9 said something about running to win so I thought this was a nice photo for this blog post!

    Our class was really fun on Monday, March 29, 2022.  Jo Ann, Dan, Karen, Odette, Merill, David, Dave, and Robin attended.  We began the class with our new tradition of singing “Give Me That Old Time Religion.”  

    Robin was having trouble with her computer and iPhone and had to leave us early and really couldn’t participate.  We missed Nadine who had a dentist appointment.  Jo Ann was in Idaho and Dan was in Long Beach during our class!

    Below is a summary written by Dan on Monday, 3/29/22:

    “We studied chapters 8 through 9 of 1 Corinthians today - we also sang happy birthday to Merrill and sang the healing prayer for all of us who were unwell or recovering from unwellness. During our study Merrill explained the traditional Christian view of God (trinity). Dan said that this issue has been a source of conflict among Christians since forever. In this NT segment, Paul spoke of what Apostles are entitled to (financial support, a spouse) and that he personally did not request those things. We had an interesting discussion of who was prayed to, especially among Catholic Christians (God, Jesus, Mary mother of Jesus, Saints). We had a discussion of whether statues in churches were idols (we decided not). David said in one section Paul was making a "fence" around the Torah when Paul said he would not eat meat. David explained that a "fence" made it easier to know what to do so as to not break a commandment. Dave had a beautiful picture in his background of Masada at dawn. We enjoyed our time together today.”

    This summary is missing some very good input from Odette which I hope to add later.  Also, if anyone else has anything to add to this summary, please share.

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